plymouth and lilairen bring some important bits to this too. Let me think; this is further afield from what I've already considered in detail.
I would normally say that "of course someone knows if they're consenting unless they're drunk or something" but I've been repeatedly educated in the concept that no, people do not always have good self-insight. These people are probably more likely to get into adverse situations, because you can't communicate effectively if you don't know what you think about something.
When I've been in nonconsensual situations, I've had a pervasive feeling of wrongness, even when I was too young to know what was really going on. I guess I theorize that this pervasive feeling of wrongness is the emotional state that underlies consent.
But it gets all wonky because yeah, you can totally consent to sex you don't really want, and that's not rape. But you can also consent to sex you don't really want and it really is rape; coercion is a funny thing. Consent has to be freely given to matter. A lot of unquestionably raped people have huge problems because they didn't fight to the end, or said yes because they were afraid they'd be killed (or because their bodies reacted to the sex). Obviously coerced consent is meaningless.
Situations can constitute coercion, too. Here it gets even more mucky, because I can certainly see how a person could put themselves into an emotional situation where they felt obligated to have sex they didn't want to have, without any significant coercive energy provided by the partner. Because people can be crazy.
Still, I think that pervasive icky feeling is really important and useful to sorting out when it was true consent and when it was coerced.
...Or maybe it's all in what the person believes will happen to them if they don't have that sex. If they believe the world will fall down upon them or violence will be done upon them or something similarly drastic, it's probably coercive; if they believe that it would probably be all right and if it does have consequences, they'd be manageable, it's probably not coercive.
I am definitely further out on the limb here, though.
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regna
(no subject)
Date: 2009-08-18 11:18 pm (UTC)I would normally say that "of course someone knows if they're consenting unless they're drunk or something" but I've been repeatedly educated in the concept that no, people do not always have good self-insight. These people are probably more likely to get into adverse situations, because you can't communicate effectively if you don't know what you think about something.
When I've been in nonconsensual situations, I've had a pervasive feeling of wrongness, even when I was too young to know what was really going on. I guess I theorize that this pervasive feeling of wrongness is the emotional state that underlies consent.
But it gets all wonky because yeah, you can totally consent to sex you don't really want, and that's not rape. But you can also consent to sex you don't really want and it really is rape; coercion is a funny thing. Consent has to be freely given to matter. A lot of unquestionably raped people have huge problems because they didn't fight to the end, or said yes because they were afraid they'd be killed (or because their bodies reacted to the sex). Obviously coerced consent is meaningless.
Situations can constitute coercion, too. Here it gets even more mucky, because I can certainly see how a person could put themselves into an emotional situation where they felt obligated to have sex they didn't want to have, without any significant coercive energy provided by the partner. Because people can be crazy.
Still, I think that pervasive icky feeling is really important and useful to sorting out when it was true consent and when it was coerced.
...Or maybe it's all in what the person believes will happen to them if they don't have that sex. If they believe the world will fall down upon them or violence will be done upon them or something similarly drastic, it's probably coercive; if they believe that it would probably be all right and if it does have consequences, they'd be manageable, it's probably not coercive.
I am definitely further out on the limb here, though.