Homestuck.

[rax]

So, because my housemate Nicole has been begging me to for months, once the semester ended I finally gave Homestuck a try. I have strong and mixed feelings! That I will try to keep minimally spoilery but there's no way I can completely avoid it. At the very least probably most of it will mean nothing to you if you have no idea what's going on in the series, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

So, what is Homestuck? It's a web...fiction-comic-thing by Andrew Hussie, which starts here, though don't click that and follow it just yet. The conceit, according to his helpful for-new-readers page, is that you are playing a text-based adventure game by typing commands, and then the comic is what happens when you type those commands. Earlier comics he did like this were based on user input (Pokémon folks will remember the Black Adventures comic which I hadn't realized was based on this but totally is) but Homestuck, especially after the first bits, seems to be mostly a story he is telling and ignoring user input. I don't even see a place on the site to give user input anymore. As far as I am concerned, that is fine; I tried to read one of his earlier things based on user input, Problem Sleuth, and the beginning was so terrible I gave up.

Anyway!

Here are some reasons that you should maybe read this thing:

• It does really interesting things with the medium of storytelling; it uses flash (including game sequences you play), sound, text, animation, and the actual fact of your clicking between panels as crucial parts of the process of what it's doing. I find this really neat and not something I've seen before. If you're interested in playing with media in this way, I do recommend checking this out.
• It's also super meta. Metafiction is not everyone's favorite thing, but if it's one of yours, oh man, you should at least give this a shot.
• Some of the characters will grab you and cause you to have strong feelings about them, and you get to watch pretty much all of them grow and learn, which is pretty great.
• There are all manner of references to video games that I find hilarious. There are also references to movies but I find them neutral because I haven't seen any of them and don't really care, but if you are into pop movies from the 80s, oh man.
• The world-building is clever and way more consistent than I expected it to be.
• There is tons of content and you can catch up gradually if you'd like, or skim everything and them jump around to follow the threads you most care about in more detail.
• Oh my god there are so many building blocks that fit together over time and make you go ohhhhhhhhhh
• The troll relationship structure is so amazing. Spoilers.
• People you genuinely care about will still die when that's what the story demands.

Here are some reasons that you should maybe not read this thing:

• The beginnings of each section are so boringly and blindlingly terrible that if I hadn't promised Nicole I would try seriously to read it I would have given up after ten pages. God the beginnings are awful and crude and boring and slow. The beginnings after the first one are even worse because now you're invested in the story and want it to continue but what is he doing? He's expositing according to a bad formula again auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuughh. (Maybe the formula works for some people, but I had so much trouble. I still haven't read most of the beginning of act 6 I just don't caaaaaaaaaare)
• Sometimes Homestuck demands more of a reader than you actually want to put into a webcomic. One of the characters (fortunately, a minor one) talks in morse code. No way, man. I am not decoding Morse code for a webcomic, even one I like. I just don't know what that character is saying.
• It will take you 10-20 hours to catch up. Seriously. Low estimate.
• I'm pretty sure the comic is super inaccessible in terms of, say, screenreaders.
• A lot of the story is told in chat logs, and everyone talks in different colors, some harder to read than others, and many of the characters have intentional affectations along leetspeak lines that make their dialogue harder to read. This is occasionally really awesome when clever double meanings arise 8ut far more often is just annnnnnnnoyyyyyyyyinnnnnnnng. ::::(
• Like almost any webcomic, the art starts bad and gets better.
• There are places where it's so meta that you are kind of just tapping your foot waiting for him to get back to telling the fucking story. Some of those places last more than a hundred pages.
• People you genuinely care about will still die when that's what the story demands.

So should you read it? I dunno? I am glad I did and keep thinking about it because I mainlined it all in like two days while sick, but I don't recommend it without reservations because of all the frustrating parts. What I will say is that it's definitely awesome even if it isn't always good, and if you decide to give it a shot but aren't hooked by it at first, just power through for a while and see if you start caring after a while. If you still don't care once you're past the first act or two, well, sorry. But I know I'm not the only person who was like bored bored bored bored HOOKED NOW, so it's worth a shot.

Comments

[ranyart]

I have a friend who has become OBSESSSSSED with Homestuck lately. I tried to read it to figure it out but I just got stuck in what I guess you mean when you talk about the intro, where there's nonsense with the guy's clown dad and getting hands stuck in a stack of cards and rearranging parts of the house? There weren't any gray-skinned folks who speak with randomly repeating vowels, as had been promised by my friend's fanart, so I gave up. I just had no idea how the opening portion would related to anything entertaining.

Maybe I should try again? I was kind of bummed that I wasn't as excited about it as other people seemed to be, but maybe that's why.

[rax]

The problem is that the beginning sets up why the trolls are actually interesting, and if you were to just jump to act 3 or 4 you would be like what is this I don't even, but the beginning itself is... chaotic and doesn't seem to be building to much and is crazy slow. It does get more interesting before the trolls but it takes some time and at least for me, the characters who were introduced first were not the ones who I found easiest to be interested in.

If you really want to get into it I do recommend trying again --- there is some real awesome stuff later on --- but I also wouldn't blame you for spending your time on something else.

[ranyart]

Well, I'll keep it in the back of my mind for a time when I might have a lot of time to kill or want to keep a tab open or something. I can't stand jumping into anything partway through it (when folks tell me "you should watch Buffy but just start in season 3" I cannot wrap my mind around why I would want to do that), so I'll just grind until I get to the interesting parts. :3

But I am really intrigued by the meta-story and why my friend Sandra is so invested in it. I like the stories she tells so that's a partial endorsement right there, I think.

[electrickeet]

I've had several people recommend this to me for some time now, especially because I adore metafiction, but as you noted, that's one hell of a time investment, especially for something I can't (or shouldn't) just poke through on a phone or an e-reader. Someday...!

[marrow]

Yeahhh, I love it dearly but Homestuck is really not for everyone. A lot of the early act stuff holds up a lot better on reread, when you're already attached to the characters and it's fun to see them doing silly stuff, but I think everyone spends their first readthrough going "Okay, now get to the trolls!" I sure did.

On the subject of the trolls being hard to read: there is actually a really useful script for Chrome which puts all their dialogue into standard English (though it doesn't work on Nepeta's cat puns, Feferi's fish puns, or Vriska's 8s).

[rax]

I was interested before the trolls, but it still took a while; the beginning of the troll arc actually frustrated me because I wanted to see them talking to the characters I finally cared about. :P But then I was like OH MY GOD TROLLS, because trolls.

And thanks for that link!

[chagrined]

Like ranyart, that was me as well, with getting bored. Except also I hadn't viewed any fanart or had any friends tell me anything specifically about it, so I didn't know ~why~ I should keep going when I was already so bored. I had some friends I knew were into it, but their posts about it were always aimed at ppl who were already reading, so I just saw "Homestuck" and skimmed further down my reading page. (But that's why I decided to give it a try, b/c I knew ppl liked it.) So anywho, rax, this post was very useful b/c it actually laid out reasons I might want to give it a go again someday, heh. And it was nice to have the time commitment estimate especially -- I'll know to wait for a time when I can dedicate that amt of time to it.

[rax]

I am glad that it was useful for you! :)

[jld]

The troll relationship structure is so amazing.

That… does not actually sound more complicated than human relationships. (And I'm only somewhat saying that because I know all kinds of high-valence poly people.) Better systematized, though.

[rax]

It's not more complicated but it is complicated along different axes and is not the sort of thing I am used to seeing so straight-up in fiction. I like it a lot. It's silly but so is the rest of the comic?

[talia_et_alia]

Fascinatingly, I spent some time on these comics (although b/c I have a weird "start from the beginning" thing I consumed the Problem Sleuth and other comics first) and drifted away somewhere in the middle, and until this moment I had no idea it was connected to the comic with the wacky trolls that everyone is so ga-ga about. Thanks, I guess!

[lhexa]

A furry equivalent is Prequel Adventure, which I quite like. :)

[bay115.livejournal.com]

My thoughts pretty much on Homestuck too. Love the creative ways Hussie did with the story telling and a lot of the characters I love (ARADIA AND JADE ARE MY FOREVER GIRLS XD; ). Most of the movie references I get as LOL my dad watches those and I had watched some of them with him. I'm with you though that the beginning is a bit on the stale side and I tend to be tl;dr on the chat logs. I thought Act 6 was cute but yeah wished Hussie would have dealt with the first leg of the plot with the new kids faster. I'm assuming you have read the Act 6 Intermission 1 at least?

In terms of catching up, I started reading it December last year when Act 5 was midway to the end and I wasn't able to catch up with updates until February of this year, LOL. Then again I was busy job hunting and then was getting used to my volunteer work position, so it took a bit for me to power through.

One thing I want to warn you though is the Homestuck fandom tends to get crazy. If they ever read this post of yours they're gonna flame you for it. >.>;

[rax.livejournal.com]

I read the intermission, yeah, or at least what of it exists so far. I liked that much better. Some of the chat logs (for example, everthing John/Vriska <3) I read all the way through, but leetspeak rap battles oh my god who cares.

Yeah Nicole has been trying to get me to read this since September and I was basically like "NO NEW THINGS DURING THE SEMESTER."

I... mostly avoid fandom outside of Pokemon which I interact with glancingly and haltingly, so I am probably OK. I may have secret Homestuck fanatics on my friendslist I guess but they are also my friends so I am not super worried. I don't think I am important enough to get flamed. ;)

[spacehawk.livejournal.com]

I tried to read it once, when I had a pretty good reason to give it a shot. I gave it about 45 minutes and could not get into it.

[rax.livejournal.com]

I am not sure I would recommend it for you, although the interlacing of universes and timelines is interesting and a couple of the characters are just awesome. But it's a lot of investment and periodically frustrating. I guess "how much free time do you have?" :)

[mmsword.livejournal.com]

I think that's a pretty fair assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of Homestuck, really. I too have no idea what that firefly is saying.

[rax.livejournal.com]

It mostly doesn't matter but there was that whole section in morse code and I was just like click, click, click, click, urgh. :(

[eslington.livejournal.com]

Great review. I think I'll use this while I'm fulfilling my role as fandom evangelist.

Also Homestuck fandom isn't any worse than any other popular fandom, in that it has it's highlights and wells of depressing crapness. I'll be glad to barrage you with the best bits given 3/8ths of a chance.

[rax.livejournal.com]

You're a ... fandom ... evangelist? Huh what?

[eslington.livejournal.com]

Sorry, had a personal injoke moment.

Basically there's an impression going around that Homestuck fandom is full of those people who are constantly bugging you to read something they like because it's totes awesome and I'm sure you'll love it because check this bit out and-

I'm kind of one of those people and I intended it as a self-deprication. ^_^;

[juldea.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting this review! I see several people talking about Homestuck on various forums and Tumblr, but the most I've gotten out of them is that it's an interactive webcomic. I did try it out once, but only for about half an hour. If I have time to burn in the future maybe I will give it another shot.

[rax.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! A big part of why I posted it is that when I was considering reading it the only opinions I could get were "HOMESTUCK IT IS AMAZING AND THE BEST EVER GO READ IT NOW" and "OH THAT THING IT IS SO ANNOYING" and I was like... okay but why? And the "it is so annoying" camp were better at giving reasons (because good lord white on white text just to be a dick WHY) but one of the it is amazing camp was my good friend and housemate so... I gave in and read it. And am glad I did!

[http://users.livejournal.com/unnecessary_/]

Everyone tells me great things about this but I gave it a try and it seemed downright stupid to me. Maybe I'm thinking of something else? Because the thing I tried, there was no way the characters from it were going to make me feel anything. I'll give this thing a or another try because I can't miss out on awesome things.

[rax.livejournal.com]

The strong feelings come from relating to the characters over time once the author gives up on trying to make each panel funny with some horrid gag and actually lets them develop and grow through interacting with each other a lot. And they might never come for you! The first half-hour or so, at least, is pretty stupid, although you can't just skip it because half of it ends up relevant later and you can't really know which half at the time. It crept up on me. I read a bunch and was like this is dumb, this is dumb, why am I even doing this, and then something happened and I was like "Oh I seem to be completely hooked and will keep reading this most of the time I am awake until I am done now." A lot of the awesome comes from the ways that various bits and pieces gradually fall together and you see that there is a structure and it's always been there (...well almost always, the beginning is still just out of place and awkward and drawn out in my opinion).

[http://users.livejournal.com/unnecessary_/]

Alright, I will believe you! Your opinions holds some weight so I will give it another try.

[iankeith.livejournal.com]

I actually thought the silliness of the first part of Problem Sleuth was way better than how it went a little downhill afterward. It almost got too serious for itself, and again I think I agree with the whole 'ignoring user input' kinda thing.

And I still like PS better than Homestuck.

And now I'm busy reading PREQUEL (http://www.prequeladventure.com/). Which is ADORABLE.

[rax.livejournal.com]

We likely have different tastes in gag humor. I guess I am being unfair; it's not that he can't do beginning so much as he can't do beginnings that I like. At all. :/ I'm glad to hear they work for someone, though, and to have that represented here.

Prequel is in fact adorable. Everything is better with catgirls, Y/y.

[neonneptunian.livejournal.com]

I think that's a pretty succinct description of HS' strengths and weaknesses, yes!
My favorite part is that sudden flash of realization Hussie pulls of making the most minute little things suddenly be OH MY GOD IMPORTANT.
That punk. :3

[rathdei.livejournal.com]

I tried so hard for homestuck. I tried soooo sooo hard for homestuck but I got mired in that 100+ page swamp of WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING I AM CONFUSED I AM GOING TO GO READ A NOVEL NOW*

*read - get a job and move to michigan and not spend until 5 am doing things like reading homestuck and playing left 4 dead and OH GOD I EXERCISE NOW LIKE AN ADULT CRY CRY


plus it's been so long that I'll have to read the whole damn thing again.

ANYWAYS
the reason he begins all his characters like that his fanbase LIKES those beginnings. THEY ARE BAD BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WRITERS LIKE YOU AND ENJOY STUPID THINGS WHY AM I TYPING IN ALL CAPS. Anyways most of the baaaaad conceits from his writing style are throwbacks to some of his original work with things like TeamSpecialOlympics and even crap like Bard's Quest which probably aren't on the internet any more never mind hosted directly with Homestuck. He's been writing weird... meta... comic things for a long time and while this is his weirdest and his meta-est he certainly enjoys some of his terrible old stuff just like his fans do.

[rax.livejournal.com]

Welcome to OLD, population YOU, OLD MAN.

There are bits of Homestuck I think you would like but proooobably not worth the investment given how I think you relate to fiction?

[rathdei.livejournal.com]

I enjoy a good deal of it but I don't get it on the levels that you do.

[merin-chan.livejournal.com]

Huh! I've never heard of this, but I'll check it out (before term begins and I once again die of busy). It sounds really interesting, from a new media perspective! Also, I have a near-infinite appetite for meta, so I might find it more tolerable than some. Thanks for the helpful review!

Just wondering, did you ever get the email I sent you? I used the address on your site, but I'm not sure if/how often you check that addy (or if it's a spam decoy). Let me know, if you're still interested.

[rax.livejournal.com]

That is my real email but I completely forgot about your message after I finished my papers, sorry. I just read it. asdfghjkl; you got your theory in my postfurry

Would you like more detailed comments over email?

[merin-chan.livejournal.com]

Yes, please! I'd be so happy to hear your comments. ^^

[merin-chan.livejournal.com]

Over email, that is! Thanks.

[eevee.livejournal.com]

I read it. I read it all. I read it all the way to the end of act 5. And I don't know why.

Problem Sleuth was good. It got a little wacky at the end, and the bit in the middle with the plugs was boring as all hell, but it was a cute idea that reminded me of a type of game I enjoy and it told a zany but coherent story.

Homestuck is not the same thing. It makes some light nods here and there, but I cannot believe that any of what's going on is remotely related to audience participation. And I guess that would be okay, except that the medium itself is now an experiment in making me not want to read it: the white text on white, the increasingly novel and irritating flavors of chatspeak, the abbreviation of all sixteen major characters to every two-letter acronym possible with four letters (so now I have to remember that "green text guy" is the same as "GG" is the same as "guy who likes spiders" is the same as "karkat" and also that this person probably has some kind of personality; what the hell is this, a bad logic puzzle?).

And even that would be kind of worth it, if the story had any kind of payoff. And it does not. There are no predictable rules to this universe; things merely happen and I'm expected to say "ahh, how cool". I feel like I'm reading the writings of a man in a psychiatric institution who once saw an episode of Doctor Who while on acid. And the longer the story goes on, the more it reads like bad fanfiction of itself.

Even the fans don't seem to care about (or comprehend?) the plot; I see nigh constant conversation about how cool the trolls are due to being emo incarnate, but if there're people talking about what's happening, I sure can't find them.

It wouldn't matter, shouldn't matter, except that Problem Sleuth was a good and clever thing, and it's a shame to see its author encouraged to veer further into the incomprehensible. I suppose, too, a mockery is being made of genuine crazy scifi. I feel like I can now empathize with how Twilight makes vampire fans feel.

[rax.livejournal.com]

It is a bad logic puzzle and that part is _super frustrating_. I personally disagree that there aren't any predictable rules and I like the plot; that said "bad fanfiction of itself" is kind of true in places (how many layers is this frickin' thing going to have) and if I didn't get connected to the characters the way I did I would probably be tired as hell of it. I'm kind of astounded that you got that far if you didn't care. I'm simultaneously impressed and sorry.

I... avoid fandom, basically. I entirely avoid homestuck fandom. But I talk about what's happening plotwise, and what connections those things imply, with the people I know who read it and I find that rewarding.

I also hate Doctor Who, so our tastes on this might just be orthogonal. I may even have bad taste here. Scifi is decidedly not my genre. Terrifyingly, if you're right about the connection, that may make me understand Twilight fans who are like "Whatever, I find your old vampire stories boring and I like this one." I am not sure I wanted that understanding, ever, but there you go. :)

[eevee.livejournal.com]

I tried to care, because I could imagine a hypothetical alternate telling of the same core story that was interesting, and I was hoping that Homestuck might become that. But it's just gotten worse and I finally can't bring myself to even look at Act 6. Maybe it'd help if I didn't think the trolls were by and large completely intolerable.

Admittedly I don't look for fandom; my sample here is "whatever noise made it my way". So there's less plot noise than troll noise, I guess.

Doctor Who is not exactly consistent with its 50 years of different writers, which is kinda why I used it for a metaphor. H2G2 could be a better contrast; the rules are completely arbitrary and everyone knows it and the books outright say so, but nobody cares because it's still clever and entertaining and is a story about people which is what scifi ought to be.

Maybe that's why I don't like Homestuck, then: the plot and the characters are both bumbling around independently, and the plot sneaks up and sticks to the characters briefly when they're actually necessary to drive it forwards. Plus most of them are annoying, so I have nothing to root for except the end of the universe, and even that doesn't work.

[rax.livejournal.com]

See I actually found it a story about people which is why I liked it! Some of the people are dipshits but some of them I really liked watching grow and change. However if that part didn't work for you then augh I bet it's terrible. :( A lot of it is decidedly either arbitrary or feels arbitrary enough that the difference doesn't matter. Sorry that you wasted your time!